Reading for September 28
Isaiah 54:1-57:14
8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,As much as I complain and bicker about God's actions, I will never understand them. I have always tried to avoid that answer because its a total cop out to say "I will never understand God". It's human nature to be curious and to want to know the motives and reasons behind what God does, and sometimes we see the reasons eventually. Sometimes we don't. There's a reason that "God only knows..." is an expression - because there are things that happen that only he knows the reasons behind. And as much as we want to be in the inner circle of knowledge, we can't, and probably never will.
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.
9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Then Chapter 57 closes with a word of warning against those who put their hope in things other than God:
13 When you cry out for help,Feel free to replace "collection of idols" with anything that you trust in in your own life in spite of God. For me it would be my job, my friends and my wife. I am fully dependent on those three things, and God often gets lost in the shuffle of my trust. That's not to say I shouldn't count on my wife or my friends and I'm not saying that trusting in earthly things is bad, but we just need to remember that God is eternal and we should put our highest hope and trust in him.
let your collection of idols save you!
The wind will carry all of them off,
a mere breath will blow them away.
But the man who makes me his refuge
will inherit the land
and possess my holy mountain."
Ephesians 6:1-24
7Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
I have a tattoo on my wrist that says "as if for Him..." and this is where it is derived from. I have always been motivated to work harder and to a higher level when I frame it as doing the work for Jesus. "What if Jesus asked me to do this? What would my end product look like?" Those are the questions I ask myself when I want to slack off and deliver a barely passable product, then I say "no. Imagine this is for Jesus. It's gotta be my best work." It's sort of like WWJD, but a lot less lame. And instead of asking what would Jesus do, which can often be a very mysterious answer, I instead ask, "What would I do is Jesus asked me to do this?"
I just think it's a good way to live.
Also, that's the end of Ephesians.
Psalm 70:1-5
5 Yet I am poor and needy;
come quickly to me, O God.
You are my help and my deliverer;
O LORD, do not delay.
Proverbs 24:8
8 He who plots evil
will be known as a schemer.
Watch out. It's a schemer.
I had a thought about understanding/discussing God and his actions that is relevant here. First, a lot of the frustration on my end is that I never get the kind of answer I want to the standard God questions. Typically I get a reference to a bible story or a response full of religious jargon (which is usually why I am asking the question in the first place :) I think a clear, straightforward answer is rarely forthcoming in these discussions. Why is this the case though? Not to pick on Brandon specifically :) but he can arguably blog about God all year, while God still remains an self-admitted unknown to him in the goals on the side of the blog. Are any of you familiar with memetic theory?
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
My theory is that not understanding actually helps the spread of these ideas. This is because the English language allows you to say (and transmit) words and ideas that you don't have to understand. Once you understand the rules and how to speak you can transmit just about anything. My point is that I think this is why I often feel like religious people speak a different language than I do. For example, if one actually understood what "living in the spirit" meant they wouldn't have to say word for word. This actually helps the spread of the concept. If religion was understandable, you could reword it and put your own spin on it. There is a danger in this though, because if everyone rewords it the message will be lost in transmission (ever play telephone?). The other upshot of using religious jargon is that it's impossible to argue with. Why use Jesus as a human sacrifice and wipe out various people in the process when God could have effortlessly done something easier to save man (or why create the need to save man in the first place, its messy)? God's love for us? Some story from the bible? How can I argue with love? We might as well be debating why Miss Piggy is infatuated with Kermit The Frog with Jim Henson. It is a non-answer. I am really looking for a car-mechanic or lawyer type of response here: Why will my car not start? Battery is dead. Where were you on the night of the murder? At home, watching Netflix. You need to be clear and direct. And unfortunately that makes your arguments/explanations more open to attack. Not understanding "God" doesn't stop you from using "God" in an argument. To give a non-religious example, I wouldn't mention Hobbes "Natural State" in an argument with a libertarian unless I had a basic understanding of it first. I do not think this is case with religious discussions. Not understanding is actually crucial to religion I think. Any thoughts on this?
I was once told that trying to get a mechanical answer around the meaning or definition of God will always leave us disappointed. But Pete, I know you can agree with me about the aesthetic beauty of something. You can look at a classic painting or listen to a fantastic metal song and call it beautiful. But can you explain why it's beautiful? Sure you can cite examples of music theory that substantiate your claim to beauty, but if someone doesn't like metal or classic art, you will never convince them.
ReplyDeleteIn the same way, I can cite examples of God's love in the Bible and display his character progression from a vengeful stepfather to a loving father figure. But these aren't clear answers. The idea of God is like the idea of beauty. You can't describe it in black and white terms. But this still doesn't encapsulate this way of thinking about God because beauty is subjective - in the eye of the beholder, as they say.
Based on my understanding and readings, God is an absolute. There is no objectivity about his existence. People can choose to believe or not believe in him but according the Bible (and I realize that its a circular reference) that doesn't change his being. You just can't get a 1+1=2 answer when it comes to God, its more cerebral than blueprint.
I know this doesn't address all of your points, but what's your thoughts on that way of thinking?
I see what you are getting at. I guess what I am saying that is I am not surprised that mystery is an integral part of religion. It has major advantages which are worth mentioning. Also, I kind of just wanted to say that I do feel like I don't speak "Christianese". Language is really important and I think it is entirely possible to hide behind the terminology and not understand what you are saying. Honestly, with a lot of religious terms, I am not sure it is even in principle possible for you to understand. What does that say about religion? I would agree that religion very much resembles art in that it is an expression of beauty created by humans. But if that is all it is, God doesn't "exist" in the sense that there is some being out there. I agree that our belief or not belief has nothing to do with whether or not God "exists". But that statement implies some kind of objective reality outside of us for God to exist in. And I admit I have no idea what God is anyway, so its a fairly meaningless question. It just seems like a double standard to me. Religion is aesthetic, yet you believe that it has a direct magical impact on the world (surviving death, answering prayers, souls and spirits "existing", heaven). So I have 2 questions. Why should this be permitted? Lastly, as an exercise in my language theory, could you explain in non-christianese what happens when you die?
ReplyDeleteI feel like I try to avoid Christianese as much as possible. At least in my perception - Pete feel free to call me out on using terms or phrases that fall into that category. As an example, I posted a link to this blog on a Christian message board and said a little bit about my mental stuggle with the genocide of thr midianites. Someone replied "We need to reason in the spirit so it doesnt cause you to stumble anymore." And I thought, do you even know what that means?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, on to your questions. 1. Why should it be permitted that an aestheticly conceptual idea be allowed to have a direct "magical impact" on he world? Well I've kind of painted myself into a corner in that one, but it goes back to my distinction that even though thinking of God as an aestetic thing helps to understand him, my belief is still that he is absolute and real. So for me, its not like a pretend thing having an impact, but more like believing in the stability of an idea. To put it in political terms people can believe in democracy or he republican party, but those arent physical tangible things, yet they certainly have a direct impact on the world.
To your second question - let me try my best to explain it in non christianese. My belief - which I am still refining - is that when I die, my soul - that is the person inside me, independent of my physical body - goes to another realm which we call heaven. In this realm, I believe that life will be eternal and peaceful.
But I see your point now about hiding behind religious lingo. Describing something like that in regular english makes it sound stupid. Damn you Pete Mitchell! Making me question my belief!! :)
I do think you avoid Christianese a lot and I appreciate that. It helps me understand what you are talking about :) "Reason in the spirit" is a perfect example of what I am talking about, haha. I think we both get frustrated with answers like that. Our beliefs definitely have a direct impact on the physical world. If I believe that my apartment is on fire, I will DO certain things. But they only come about through human action. So your answer to the 1st question, sound to me like, God is an important idea in an inspiring story. Belief in God causes people to do things which impact the world, which I would agree with. But God doesn't really exist in the empirical sense I was getting at (like the keyboard exists that I am currently typing on). Whether religion is useful or not to society is an entirely separate question from whether it is empirically true. Thanks for answering the second question. I just wanted to see how that would go. I think trying to understand and put things in your words is very important for yourself as well as for communicating to others. As for questioning your belief, give me a call if you ever need some doubt or uncertainty. I am not even sure I am typing this right now :)
ReplyDeleteFirst off, kudos to Brandon for being religious without being close-minded about it. Too often those words go hand in hand. The lack of tangibility is what frustrates a lot of us about God. I've struggled with it myself, particularly when I have close friends in one ear praying to God because they've been raised to and other atheist friends who find it foolish. You have to either give into not knowing the real answer or just push it away.
ReplyDeleteBrandon, nice effort trying to compare the beauty of God with music. It's somewhat comparable, but in the end, music might not be something you can grab, but it's something you can physically hear, which separates it from religion.
Pete, I agree you with 100% that most people who speak Christianese have no idea what they're saying. It's like corporate mumbo jumbo. They're simply repeating the language that's around them. I don't fully understand most religions, which is why English is my language of choice.
Keep up the interesting writing, my friend.
- Joe DeProspero